Andrew Porter's Articles

As the end to my piece on the rebirth of stand-up, I present my interview with comedian Eugene Mirman. This is the second and final interview (the previous one being with Michael Showalter) in this installment. Please be sure to check out the comedians' websites at michaelshowalter.net , eugenemirman.com , and slovinandallen.com to keep track of tour dates so you can catch their shows. And now, Eugene Mirman speaks of comedy at the age of three, gasmasks, co-sines, and the White House. Enjoy.


Andrew Porter - What was one of the first jokes that you ever remember telling? Not necessarily in front of an audience, but just in life in general?

Eugene Mirman - I think I was literally like three years old and told some friend of my parents, who was reading a book, that reading would destroy his eyes, but it was through an elaborate scheme. It doesn't sound funny now, but as a three year old I think it was very clever. Otherwise, my actual first joke that I ever wrote and told on stage was "what's the profession with the highest suicide rate? A lot of people think it's dentists, but it's kamikaze pilots."�

AP - What did you want to be when you were just growing up?

EM - I think I wanted to do something involving entertainment or comedy. I mean, I watched a lot of stand-up growing up. I don't know if it ever occurred to me that I could do that, but I think I vaguely was like "I'll be a filmmaker."� I didn't really know. I just liked playing with video cameras and things.

AP - What were some goals for yourself when you first started out doing comedy?

EM - To do comedy. My goals remain, and were, to simply make a living at comedy and do what I enjoy in terms of comedy. That obviously can account for different levels of something where you could either have a small apartment or a larger house. But within that range. Like, I don't particularly care as long as I can make stuff"¦. like comedy. Not chairs. I can't build anything.

AP - I know when you first started out doing comedy you actually did your thesis, in college, on stand- up, because it was actually your major.

EM - Yeah.

AP - Do you think that the earlier you start in comedy the better?

EM -No. Am I glad that I did it in college opposed to something that didn't interest me? Yes. If you would like to do comedy feel free to start now. Feel free to do it in ten years. Is it easier? Possibly, but I know people like Demetri [Martin] who started when he was in law school. He wasn't even thinking of doing it, so I dunno.' He's really doing very well. Umm, sure. I mean, it's like anything.

AP - I think that one of the scariest things for a lot of people who want to start out and do comedy is that they're scared of leaving their 9 to 5, steady jobs. You had a job at a web company when you started. When you left your job, were you nervous at all that you didn't really have a steady job and were going into comedy instead?


EM - No. There's nothing else I can do. I wasn't leaving something to do this. I always did this and had ways to sustain myself. When I moved to New York I had saved up some money, and then I ran up a lot of credit card debt, and then I would get comedy work, and then I had a temp job for a little while, and eventually I left it. No. It never occurred to me and it still doesn't. It's not like I don't have a choice, but I feel like this is sort of what I do. There are lots of different things [in comedy]. You can write or perform. You could make videos. Within the world of comedy I could do one of hundreds of totally different things.

AP - Do you ever get writer's block?

EM - I guess. I think of material in a lot of different ways. I'll see something that annoys me and think "I should make a video like this."� Or, I'll see something I love and think of a parody. Or, I'll have an idea and start writing. In terms of sitting down and just writing straight jokes, that's often harder for me than creating a five or seven minute weird bit about something.

AP - About something just off the top of your head that basically gets your imagination going?

EM - Sort of, yeah. It just depends. In terms of writer's block, if I just sit down to write jokes then yeah it's very difficult.

AP - Did you bomb a lot starting out?

EM - You do well and you bomb. It's back and forth. If you only bomb, you would probably stop"¦..possibly. The truth is, you do well and along the way you think of things that are funny and you think of new things. I'm sure there's things I did in college that I enjoy, but I don't really do them now.

AP - What do you think is more crucial? Do you think it's more crucial that you can laugh at one of your jokes no matter what the audience thinks?

EM - The reason I perform for people is so that people understand what I'd like them too. I'm trying to convey whatever I think is funny to people. Do I have longer bits that have some things that I, personally, think are funny and only two or three out of ten people will agree with me? Sometimes. But, I don't do them as much or they're a part of something else. I think it is important to have the audience enjoy it, but, also, I think it's important to find your audience. I don't think every audience should [go along with you], but I think you should give it a shot if you're performing for people.

AP - I know you once performed in a gasmask.

EM - I did say that at some point. It wasn't the whole set. I was doing really weird things. I wasn't around stand up. I didn't really know what it was. I mean, I saw it and would do it, but I would just do whatever I thought would be funny. I think that's the common misconception in terms of alternative comedy. What I'm trying to do, I'm trying to be funny. It's not like some crazy experiment. I'm not necessarily using conventional means, but I'm still creating set-ups and punch lines of a sort. They just involve PowerPoint.

AP - What do you think about that term "alternative comedy"�? Do you think it really means much?

EM - I guess. I mean, it's the same thing with alternative music. There's lots of alternative music that sells millions of records. It's just a genre, so if people feel comfortable putting something in a genre it's fine. I don't particularly care. Some people seem to hate it, some don't.

AP - It seems like a lot of comedians are actually coming to these rock clubs to do comedy. Why do you think that is?

EM- I think it's because that's where people go normally. Kids don't normally go to comedy clubs that often. Also, it's cheaper and comics get paid more in rock clubs, and they don't have to do seven shows in one city. You can do one or two shows and then move on. You also draw in fans of you opposed to fans of comedy in general. If you go to a comedy club, guys are there to just see comedy, but nobody ever goes to just see music. People would care if it was Ani DiFranco or Led Zeppelin. But, in comedy, there's often not a distinction. It's just comedy. So, as a result, by moving into a different venue people who want to see what we want to do come to see us.

AP - Do you think that rock venues may have open mike nights at some point?

EM- Only if they're idiots. No. Haha. Maybe. Comedy clubs are an invention of the late 70s and 80s basically. So, in New York for instance, there's tons of cabaret places and small places to do all kinds of things- music, comedy, poetry. Do those places have comedy? Yeah. Would it make sense [for rock clubs to do]? The Kaiver, for instance. The Kaiver could do that maybe, but it'd be a little rowdy. It just depends what the venue is.

AP - I know you've just finished up your CD "En Garde, Society!,"� and you've actually staged protests against yourself in order to raise awareness.

EM - Yeah. I have done that, and will at the White House tomorrow.

AP - Wow.

EM - I have a permit. Don't worry. I mean, you're not worried, but I'm just saying that I'm going to do a demonstration against myself in front of the White House.

AP - That should be damned funny.

EM - We'll find out.

AP - What else are you planning to protest? Anything else?

EM - Just myself at the White House for now. I did one in New York which was pretty fun.

AP - What can we expect from your new CD?

EM - Like it being awesome? Is that an answer?

AP - Oh yeah.

EM - There's a bunch of videos. There's commentary. There's stand up. Whimsically political things, but not really. I don't know what you want to expect from it. I hope that it's funny, but I don't know what to tell people to expect from it. Probably to have their minds blown by really inventive comedy. I don't know. You can add that I was laughing and kidding about that last part when you write it.

AP - Oh yeah. I'll put you telling me to do that in it too. If there's something that you wish you could change about the world of comedy, stand up wise, what would it be? Is there anything?

EM - Not particularly. I think that I've always just simply preferred to find my own space, do my own thing, and promote it. I find that an easier thing to do, so for me to go "I wish comedy clubs did this"� I don't care. It's the same way that I'm not mad at some shitty band. They're welcome to put out crappy things and make money and get horrible blowjobs"¦.or fine ones. But, the point is, I think there's a resurgence [in comedy] and I'm very excited that there are a lot of people doing really cool, creative things. I'm sure there are people doing terrible things, but I'm trying to remain unaware of it.

AP - Do you know of any comedians right now that may not be known too well that you really like?

EM - It'd be great if I said people way more successful than myself. "Well, I dunno if you've ever heard of this guy."� Yes. There's tons of people. There's a guy named John Mllaney, Jacqueline Novak. They're very funny New York comics. I don't know what would constitute being "known."� I might be that person. I might be a "not well-known person"� who's funny that people should know about. There's lots of comics. I think that, in general, stand up is becoming more popular again. It sort of had a death in the 80s and I think that now it's having a great rebirth. Partially because"¦"¦I don't know why. Probably because people are very funny or something? Some combination.

AP - One last question. Tangent is too co-secant as hyperbolic sine is too"¦?

EM - Co-sine? God. I'm honestly thrilled that I don't know the answer to this. And, everyone in my family is a mathematician but me. I don't know. What if I said sine? Co-Sine?

AP - That works! Yeah!

EM - Is that it?

AP - I dunno. I don't know it.

EM - Oh. You don't know what the answer to this is?

AP - It's co-sine. I guess.

EM - Is it co-sine?

AP - I guess.

EM - Oh! "Co-secant."� So it is sine, co-sine. Wait, I got it right.

AP - I think you did.

EM- That's awful. That's how much information I have, that I accidentally get math right. Yeah. I forget a lot of math, but I remember a lot of information about comedy.

Comedians Eugene Mirman, Michael Showalter, and Leo Allen are being hauled around the U.S. at the moment, doing shows in various cities and bringing their absurdist comedy to every town they hit. Eugene has had his plate full lately by just completing "The Comedians of Comedy Tour"� with fellow comics Patton Oswalt, Maria Bamford, and Brian Posehn, finishing up his latest CD "En Garde, Society!,"� staging protests against himself, and now performing in the aforementioned tour. Eugene was born in Russia, but came to America when he was four and a half, providing plenty of fodder for jokes. He began making short films while working at a web-based company, and soon decided to leave the glory of the internet to act upon his dreams of stand-up. He now hosts a show called "Invite Them Up"� at Rafifi's in New York City, and his often absurdist views and use of PowerPoint and short films has made him a favorite among many.

Michael Showalter is no stranger to a full plate. Showalter formed a comedy troupe in college which came to be known as "The State."� The State began to star on an improvised sketch show called "You Wrote It, You Watch It"�, and was soon asked by MTV to write and star in a show named after their troupe. After the show's end, Showalter and two State alumni, David Wain and Michael Ian Black, formed the troupe "Stella."� Stella began performing and showing their short films in New York City, and soon became a hit all around town. Stella then wrote and stared in the cult-hit film Wet Hot American Summer in 2001, and by 2005 they had landed a show, "Stella"�, on Comedy Central. Most recently, Showalter has directed, wrote, and stared in his latest film, The Baxter. All this and Showalter is still looking for different areas to explore, including perhaps producing an upcoming sketch show.

Leo Allen is best known for being one half of the comedy duo "Slovin and Allen,"� performing alongside comedian Eric Slovin. The two met while doing their separate comedy acts and decided to combine forces to create an act that seems to cross vaudeville with the humor of a Looney Tunes episode. Leo still enjoys performing by himself and is also currently writing for "Saturday Night Live."�

These comedians are some of the top in the field of a new genre known as "alternative comedy."� This genre does it's best to describe the Power Point presentations, short films, letters, and even phone conversations employed by these comics to cause hearty laughs from an attentive crowd. Their style is outside of mainstream and therefore they must look to non-mainstream venues to perform. This leaves rock clubs, filled with college students, as a new sanctuary for comedy. From the rise of the ashes of the death of stand-up in the 80s, it truly is a Comedy Renaissance, and it truly is one hell of a rebirth.

I was lucky enough to be able to meet with Showalter and Mirman when they came to perform at the Philly rock club, The Trocadero. In this two part interview, I talk to the comics about this idea of "alternative"� comedy, how they fell in love with laughter, and go on to discuss writing, the audience, and, oddly enough, math. And now, the Showalter conversation:


Andrew Porter - What's one of the first jokes that you remember telling? Not necessarily in front of an audience, but just in general life?

Michael Showalter - The one I told tonight.

AP - The one about ZZ Top? (Note: The joke was about ZZ Top's song " Legs " where, when Showalter was in high school, he changed the lyrics from "She's got legs, she knows how to use them"� to "She's got legs, she knows how to walk."�)

MS - Yeah.

AP - And was that to your friends that you told that too?

MS - Yeah.

AP - Did they really like it a lot or what?

MS - We all thought it was pretty funny.

AP - When do you think you really fell in love with comedy?

MS - There were a couple of big moments for me. One was for me when I saw Animal House and I saw John Belushi. The other was when I was in middle school, I went to visit my sister in college and I saw their improv group. I knew then that I wanted to do comedy when I got in to college. Probably the two bigger moments for me.

AP - What did you want to be growing up?

MS - I really didn't know. I knew I wanted to do something involving film"¦.TV. I didn't know if I wanted to be a writer or an actor or what. I really didn't know.

AP - And do you enjoy being an adult now?

MS - An adult?

AP - Yeah.

MS - I do actually. I actually enjoy being in my thirties a lot more than I enjoyed being in my twenties.

AP - What were some of the goals for yourself when you first started out doing comedy?

MS - To make a movie. I've accomplished a lot of my goals, and that's not to say that I think that I'm "huge"� or anything, but I wanted to make my mark and I wanted to make"¦.. I mean, my major goals have been accomplished. To do "Stella"�, "The State"�, Wet Hot American Summer, and The Baxter. That's sort of the quadruple threat, and I'm kind of now trying to figure out what my new goals are, so I'm trying a lot of different stuff. I'm teaching. I'm writing new stuff. I'm touring. I'm just trying out all kinds of different stuff to see what it is that I want to do next.

AP - You're teaching at "The People's Improv Theater"�, right?

MS - Yeah.

AP - What exactly does your class touch on?

MS - I'm teaching a comedy screenwriting class.

AP - What do you think is one of the toughest parts about screenwriting?

MS - Screenwriting is a really, really, really hard thing to do. It's a lot of fun, but it's a very creative and long process. To me, you know, they say that screenwriting is a marathon. To write a movie takes years. To write a good movie it can take years.

AP - And how do you think that your sense of humor has evolved from when you started doing comedy until now?

MS - I think I've gotten a lot better at trusting my own instincts and just trying to be true to myself. Not to try to do what I think the audience wants as much as what I find funny, and to try to trust that the audience will come with me on that journey.

AP - So, you find it much more crucial that you can laugh at your jokes"¦?

MS - Yeah. I have to think it's funny. I have to find it funny.

AP - No matter what the audience thinks?

MS - No matter what the audience thinks. And I hope the audience thinks it's funny. If the audience doesn't think it's funny, I probably won't do the joke for very long. But, I'm always definitely trying to make myself laugh first.

AP - Did you bomb a lot when you first started out?

MS - Not really "bomb,"� because I'm confident. But, I've told billions of jokes that no one thought were funny. I'm constantly having that experience.

AP - It seems like a lot of people take for granted what comedians do and they find that it must be pretty simple for comedians to make people laugh, and, in actuality, it's an incredibly difficult job at times. Did you come into the job thinking that it might be pretty easy or did you know what you were getting yourself into?

MS - I knew that I wanted to work hard at it. I didn't know"¦. No. I didn't think that it would be easy. I knew it was always something I wanted to work hard at. I've always known comedy wasn't easy. I've always known that. Without having tried it myself, I've always known that the great comedians are working hard at it - Monty Python and Steve Martin. And, I never looked at their work as a kid and went "that's easy. I could do that."�

AP - You've also listed that you like Woody Allen too.

MS - Yeah.

AP - How often do you look back at these people in your mind when writing comedy?

MS - Constantly.

AP - Constantly?

MS - All the time.

AP - Do you think "what would they do"� or do you just think"¦"¦?

MS - I don't think "what would they do,"� but I'm constantly going over their work, looking for inspiration. Yeah! I do think "what would they do."� I definitely do"¦ yeah. "What would they do"� and "what wouldn't they do"� too.

AP - What do you think about the term "alternative comedy"�? Do you think it actually means much?

MS - To me it does. Yeah. It's definitely not mainstream comedy.

AP - Do you think it sums up what you do pretty well?

MS - Umm. No. Not really. But, I don't have an issue with it either. If people want to use that word, I'm fine with it.

AP - It seems like a lot more comedians are using these rock venues to do comedy. Do you think it's just because comedy clubs are getting stale or that they have a bad image or what?

MS - I think that for me comedy and music are very similar and it's the same kind of thing. I don't want to go to a comedy club to hear comedy. I want to hear it in a rock club. I want to hear it in a music venue. It's more of that kind of an experience for me. It shouldn't be polite. It should be a rock and roll kind of vibe.

AP - Do you think that rock clubs at some point may take up doing an open mike?

MS - I hope not. Maybe! I dunno'. You know what? I have no clue. Yeah. Maybe. That could be cool.

AP - Where do you think are some of the best places for people starting out doing comedy?

MS - Anywhere. Anywhere. It's not really about the place. I mean, in terms of cities, New York, Chicago, LA. All the big cities. But, as far as where to do it? Anywhere. If you've got something funny to do, just do it.

AP - You told Gothamist, I think it was, back in 2005 that you had another idea that you were working on. Something that you were really passionate about and were trying to write, but it was going to take you some time to write. Are you still working on that?

MS - Actually, right now I'm not working on it. I'm just kinda' doing other stuff right now. I may also be doing a TV show that I'm going to produce, so I'm not actually going to be on it. That's also something I'm kind of into, but I don't want to say too much about it. It's sketch comedy related, which is sort of a return for me. I do have this thing and I am working on it, but I'm not putting pressure on myself to do another movie just yet.

AP - If there is something that you could change in the world of stand up, what would you do? Is there anything?

MS - No.

AP - Nothing?

MS - Nah.

AP -Who are your favorite comics right now that aren't too well known?

MS - There is varietyshac.com. That's four girls that call themselves "The Shac."� They do "Shac Shorts."� They're Andrea Rosen, Chelsea Peretti, Heather Lawless, Shonali Bhowmik. Eugene's really great. Um, Jackie Kline I think is really funny. Kristin Shawl. There's these guys I saw in San Francisco called "Boomtime."� They're a sketch group which was really funny.

AP - I know you got the sketch show "The State"� just out of college. What did it feel like to be able to have that show while all your peers are looking for jobs and you're getting money doing what you wanted to do?

MS - I sort of took it for granted. To me I was just like "well, yeah. Of course that's what I'm doing."� I didn't know that it was special. Now I know. I have much respect. But at the time it was just like "this is what we were doing."� A lot of my friends were having some success at a young age too, so we weren't the only ones.

AP - So it wasn't nerve wrecking at all to take on that responsibility?

MS - Actually no, because we were young and naïve, and we didn't give a shit.

AP - What all do you think you learned from that experience?

MS - I learned a lot about comedy from the other guys that I worked with. I learned a lot about discipline, hard work and just doing it [comedy] that way.

AP - One final question. Tangent is to co-secant as hyperbolic sine is too"¦"¦"¦?

MS - Math?